leachie for profit

[jason longboard]

so I know it takes a long time to get babies from them, but Im assuming they are going to be in demand for some time and worth breeding? I love them anyways and would love just to have them as pets but you know what Im askin here.

[zuk450]

ive seen leachie prices drop lately, and they are definently getting more common (pure locals are still in high demand) but the prices on the island crosses are getting cheaper and cheaper. If you were to start a group now, in the 3 years or so it would take (im guessing ) to get some hatchlings the price of a leachie might only be around 100-200 dollars.

with geckos i always figure if you can get them to pay for themselves then you are doing good.  i would say maybe, MAYBE 5% of hobbyist breeders who go big end up making a decent living solely with their reptile breeding businness.  thats not to say yo wouldnt be getting a few hundred bucks here and there but I imagine it would be far from steady,  and probably not enought to survive on.

I would sugest enjoying your pets and breeding them for your own interests/hobby, you might get  a little extra spending cash but you probably arent gonna get rich off of them.

besides, in my opinion hand tamed CB tokay geckos are gonna be the next big thing, invest now haha

[jason longboard]

yeah Im not in herps to get rich lol, I did enjoy the extra cash though while breeding leos and beards back in the day. Thats all Im kinda lookin for because I truely do enjoy just breeding herps and careing for them. Just out of curiosity, how come everyone just dosnt agree to not let thier prices go to crap? Is it the box stores that ruin it all?

[zuk450]

i think alot of people just dont have the time or room to keep alot of their hatchlings, after not being sold for a while im sure they drop prices almost to help "cut their losses".
the bigger chain stores may play a role as well,but im  not sure how significant it would be since alot of them dont carry the more exotic species(sp*). with the more common animals (beardies, leos, cresties, ball pythons ect) i think it definently has an effect.
Ive personally bought all my cresties from petco simply because after i add in shipping costs i would be paying 2-4x what i would at petco by ordering from a breeder. (my local petco takes good care of their reptiles too so that a plus)
Just as an example i saw  leopard geckos, normals and albinos on sale at petco for 17.99. I remember when the albinos fisrst hit the market they were really expensive, I also can remember paying 70 bucks for a plain jane leopard gecko back in 1994-95 and thinking I got a good deal on one haha.

[samanthajane13]

There's a very good discussion about this very subject over on Pangea-


http://www.pangeareptile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32241


A kid was having a fit about the fact that he couldn't move his Plain-Jane cresties for more than a few bucks, and thought they should be worth much more, not taking into account the saturated market, the fact that most people don't like dealing with minors, and he was advertising at a college campus where the students had little disposable cash, and may not be able to have herps in the dorms.

He also had no clue about pairing high quality geckos, etc.  Not to mention that he was in breeding for all the wrong reasons-to make money-rather than for the love of the hobby.

He wanted to know if he'd get more money if he switched to another Rhac species.

It's grown to quite a discussion, involving many aspects of herp breeding, advertising, making a name for yourself in the market, etc.


Here's another thread-the original poster has his panties in a bunch-and he's pretty clueless and won't accept that hes not ready to breed, because he has all the right equipment!!!


http://www.pangeareptile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35205
 

[portal_reptiles]

here are some of the things im seeing with leachies and the market.....two big ones...

prices are droping.....but i dont think it will be a big one, they only produce acouple times a year

bloodlines.....theirs not that many different locales to start with and when their was only a pair or two to start with....we are already seeing defects in those lines.

dont get into reptiles if your just looking to make money....thats the worst reason, if you like them and want to breed them....then do it, look at all the ball python people that have come and gone because they thought they could get rich from breeding balls....

I have always said passion over greed is the always the best way to look at it. others will see thats why your breeding them and alot of people dont buy from them..... so yeah do it because you like them....the market will level out....im thinking around $200-$225ish

[samanthajane13]

dont get into reptiles if your just looking to make money....thats the worst reason, if you like them and want to breed them....then do it

I have always said passion over greed is the always the best way to look at it. others will see thats why your breeding them and alot of people dont buy from them..... so yeah do it because you like them

I definitely agree with this!!

[jason longboard]

dont get into reptiles if your just looking to make money....thats the worst reason, if you like them and want to breed them....then do it

I have always said passion over greed is the always the best way to look at it. others will see thats why your breeding them and alot of people dont buy from them..... so yeah do it because you like them

I definitely agree with this!!

hope you guys dont think thats where Im coming from, its been my passion for 15 years or more, however, I did make some good extra cash along the way and its nice to have that bonus, its the only reason I ask, even most shops I see still take care of cresteds and they dont make a huge hassle for store keepers like say a bearded, or need as much, so they tend to be kept better. So even though the market is plentiful, I think they will be selling for quite some time. So yeah it would be cool to make a little extra cash, but like I said before, I just love keepin them too, I may even treat them better than the rest of my family sometimes lol, anyways, thanks guys.

[samanthajane13]

No-I don't think that at all, Jason!! 

And it's nice to see you back and posting!!  I know that you've been a member for quite a while, but I rarely see you logged in, and you rarely post.

I was pointing out those posts just because so many have thought about switching herps to breed, mostly because they're disappointed by the fact that they can't make money in cresties due to the saturated markets in many areas, and many are frustrated by the fact that they just can't sell the cresties PERIOD-for whatever reason.

I do understand where you're coming from about the cresties and gargs.

I just don't see larger Rhacs making as "big" of an impact with pet shops, etc, because of their higher prices and the fact that they're harder to come by because they don't produce as many offspring each year.

I think you'll see then online and at shows, but I just don't think they will catch on as fast with the general public.

[portal_reptiles]

wasnt thinking that man....just see alot of people getting into them as a maney maker. Yeah, 15-18 years is awhile in keeping and breeding reptiles, i see you work with red tails......you see this all the time with what i call "money breder" thinking they can make lot of money by breeding high end morphs. Like with some of the lipstick ablinos....you get a big name breeder selling them for $100-$200 over market value and then a new guy comes in for money and prices them at the same price......and they dont sell. Guess you could say the same for even here....AC produces some of the best lines of crested geckos and alot of it has to do with that your buying the name and becuase of who he is, you can trust him....its not a bad thing in any way...but if i got a $400 AC (or anyother big namebreeders) gecko and tryed to resale it and knowone knew who i was...it would move of the price i got it for. And i think that upsets alot of newbies.

[samanthajane13]

Yes-just because Anthony, Philippe de Vosjoli or Allen Repashy has a BIG NAME in the business, and can command high prices for their lines-which took them years and generations to develop-along with their reputations-it doesn't mean a noob with no name or reputation can get those same high prices for their animals.

That's what a lot of people were trying to explain to the noob in the Pangea links.

There are a LOT of different aspects of the business discussed in those links.

[honuman]

General thought from a person who has had some success in breeding different animals.
If you are in it for the money GET OUT OF IT.  You can make a little cash but first you have to  have the passion for what you are doing.  
Success in my opinion is NOT making gobs of money it's getting the animals to thrive and reproduce.  THAT is success!!
I can sell my animals or NOT sell them.  Makes no difference to me.  If my numbers get large I skip a breeding season until I slim them down.  I operate with the idea that I will maintain enough animals that I can afford to keep  and feed forever.  This is why I have my established rules below:

If I don't get a good vibe from you  I don't sell you an animal. (don't have to I can afford to KEEP them all)
If you are minor I am not selling you a gecko (don't have to I can aford to keep THEM all) ( minor accompanied by adult who promises to be the responsible party for the animal's care is acceptible)  
Don't start trying to chip away at the my prices.   I did not pour all my heart and soul into what I do so that you can cheapen it by trying to nickle and dime me.  My prices are always fair and reasonable -- I won't sell you a gecko (hmmm how does it go? -- don't have to I can afford to keep them ALL!!!)

You would be surprised how many people miraculously cough up the cash when you hold your ground.
(Usually they piss me off for playing that game and I don't want to sell them a gecko LOL!! -- but if they seem like a good home I will cave on that one.)

I did this with parrots for years. If your hobby pays for itself then be happy.  If it doesn't then you have to consider what your priorities are.

I am starting to focus more on leachies myself and other geckos that are more challenging to breed and less on the cresties.  I like the challenge. BUT I will never be away from my cresties. They are just too much fun!!  Also, there is that feeling of anticipation --WHAT if this egg hatches out to be a crestie that no one else has ever produced before!!??!!  

Okay enough rant.

Steve

[portal_reptiles]

WHAT if this egg hatches out to be a crestie that no one else has ever produced before!!??!!

Steve!...HEY, thats what im doing....you took my idea...lol

[honuman]

Steve!...HEY, thats what im doing....you took my idea...lol

Nah -- I only borrowed it 

[jason longboard]

I know what you guys are all saying, I tought a lot of the same stuff. Had the same issue when breeding leos back in the day and then box stores started selling them for cat turds. I also stopped because the pet stores I would sell them to didnt take good care of their stuff and sold them to kids who probably kept them in goldfish bowls. I just want to enjoy my hobby as I always have, but breed something I actualy love, and also have that thought I may be able to sell some babies later, not for a buisness but you know to cover some of my random spending lmao.


Do you guys see gargs being more worth the effort right now? I like them a lot also, I think they are overlooked by the cresteds cuteness but after holding one this weekend,though it mudded down my hand, it was still so very cool.

My biggest passion is snakes and wanted to breed black pines or a handfull of other types, but geckos dont take as much room, sand boas and rosies are pretty much filled in the market already as well.

Anyways, I just love this stuff, however I do like to work for a living and dont plan on breeding reptiles for a job. I think a lot of selling them is in your advertising too by the way.

[jason longboard]

No-I don't think that at all, Jason!! 

And it's nice to see you back and posting!!  I know that you've been a member for quite a while, but I rarely see you logged in, and you rarely post.

I was pointing out those posts just because so many have thought about switching herps to breed, mostly because they're disappointed by the fact that they can't make money in cresties due to the saturated markets in many areas, and many are frustrated by the fact that they just can't sell the cresties PERIOD-for whatever reason.

I do understand where you're coming from about the cresties and gargs.

I just don't see larger Rhacs making as "big" of an impact with pet shops, etc, because of their higher prices and the fact that they're harder to come by because they don't produce as many offspring each year.

I think you'll see then online and at shows, but I just don't think they will catch on as fast with the general public.

thanks, I was so busy with my other hobbies and herps I just didnt have much to say about my one crested female lol,  I stopped in all the time just to look at your guys pics and such, didnt feel the need to respond to some ppls questions since all of you guys are here but I see how my advice has really helped some ppl on the other sites Im on so figured I better be more part of now and then. Plus if Im going to breed them, better touch base with all of you, dont worry, Im not after all your customers, yet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Im working on an all black with pink and green spots, then things will change.

[portal_reptiles]

J, you looking at getting babies or adults??

the reason im asking is because leachies can take 3 years to start producing. And nother problem these guys have is their pickey on their mates too. Females have been known to kill males if they dont like them. Once they pair up, thats it......cant change out males. I have two different locales pair up and it sucks becuase i cant change them out to make pure locales.

[LunarGecko]

I'm going through some of this now. I got a leachie 3 years ago at 7g, turned out male (luckily) so I spent the money to get a really nice female when she was about 30g. They are now all grown and JUST introduced them last night for the first time. Personally I wanted to wait a while but she was dropping duds and he was glossing up the log in his tank. Each of them are pure Moros or Island Es, whatever you want to call them. My original purchase investment in them was $850.00 just for them. The male is a very dark one and the female has lots of pink spots so thats one of the reasons they were a bit on the costly side. I'm realizing its going to take a season or maybe even two to make that investment back. I don't even know if they will produce anything yet. Thank the gods they seem to like one anther, I was so worried they would no be compatible and they might fight.

I think I understand what you mean. You want to get some leachies because they seem fun and you're interested in them but you want to know if you can make the investment back at some point. I think the answer is yes as long as they accept one anther and breed, you can over time, no matter what the market will do. It will take time and it may not be simple. I can't say if you will do as well with mix locals or if you will ever break 100% even if you consider food housing and all of that. I cant say this cause IDK what you will spend on that. I dont expect to ever break even that way, my babies are very spoiled.

My .02 is if you can get them do. They are 100% worth the cost and are unlike any other herp I have kept. Just a very enjoyable animal to keep IMHO.

[samanthajane13]

Im working on an all black with pink and green spots, then things will change.

I call first dibs on the babies!!!!

[portal_reptiles]

Im working on an all black with pink and green spots, then things will change.

I call first dibs on the babies!!!!

good luck with that....theirs no black leachies and i dont know about the green spots? so it would be the 1st.....as of right now i think the only socalled morph is the snowflake, but alot of people dont view it as so

[samanthajane13]

Yes-I know-I was being facetious...bit if it ever does happen...I'm on top of the list!!

[portal_reptiles]

yeah..i thought you might...i just didnt know if jason was aware...

[jason longboard]

yeah..i thought you might...i just didnt know if jason was aware...

come on man,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I told you guys Ive been in this for 15 years or so, sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh. Anyways, Im just going to do cresteds for now,just a little, I got a feeling high end gargs are going to get big though. I was just questioning the lechie ideas, Im not going for that, you never know though, I would love to have one either way so that could change later but again, not trying to make much money on it, just for hobby sake and a few extra bucks maybe.