CGD

[Herpisphere]

My baby gecko that recently died had all the signs of being impacted.

What had it eaten? Crested Gecko Diet.

I want this to be a warning to others. Wait until your gecko is a few months old to feed it CGD. Why risk death?

[Salzy]

Whoa! Please don't go jumping to conclusions like that. I just don't think it is fair for you to say that due to this isolated case.

You just said that it had the signs of being impacted, but you can't prove that it was the CGD. I don't know how CGD could cause impaction in the first place. There are loads of people that feed CGD, and CGD only to their geckos...hatchlings included. Perhaps what you had was a freak accident, which I suppose could happen but it is quite unlikely. If I had to guess, there was probably something else wrong with your gecko that made it pass away on you.

Also, feeding it anything else besides some type of CGD would have even higher risks of causing impaction. Cricket, roach, mealworm, etc. exoskeletons could also cause this to happen.

Could it have been the substrate the gecko was on? Even if it was only on paper towel, it could have eaten a corner or it or something. I just want you to see that there may be other causes and reasons as to why this happened.

[BrianLorys]

Sorry about your loss, but i have to agree with Kyle on this one. I just dont see how a soft, liquidy food could cause impaction. Besides, unless you had a herp vet cut it open and see what really caused it, i dont think you could prove it was infact, impaction. I tend to think there was something else wrong with your gecko, and the symptoms were similar to impaction symptoms. Or, maybe your gecko had something wrong with his digestive process, and couldnt digest the food properly, so it just built up in the intestines.

[samanthajane13]

Herpisphere-

I'm so sorry for your loss...

We've all been there ourselves, and can understand your pain.

Hugs-
Donna

[Herpisphere]

Thanks Samantha.

CGD was the only thing the gecko had eaten. As for being liquidy, it also has some grainish things in it, not at all unlike the size of sand particles (or is the CGD I bought somehow different?).

I can't prove it, but I do believe it. It's possible that it could have just been something else, I know, but the signs tell me otherwise. I just wanted to warn people so that the same thing doesn't happen to them. This having happened to me, there's no way I'm going to put my babies at a risk by feeding it to them so young again and I think it would be wise for others to be wary also.

[samanthajane13]

I've been feeding the original CGD-haven't had the funds to order the 2 part yet, but none of my kids have had any problems with it.

Even my anoles will slurp at it now and then.  I keep a small plastic milk bottle cap of itin their cages, figuringthat if the anoles don't eat all the crickets, the crickets will at least get gut-loaded with wholesome food before the anoles finally chow down on them.

But as I said-none of my kids have any problems with it.

So sorry your gecko died.

[monster]

this post has me curious, can you tell us more about how the gecko was kept? substrates, temps etc?
i'm not looking for what you "did wrong", i would like to see the big picture leading up to the event.

either way, im very sorry you lost a gecko no matter how it happened. it's never easy.

[Herpisphere]

The gecko was born. A few days later he shed and ate his skin. I let a day pass between when he completely shed his skin and when I first fed him. I fed him CGD. He ate a good amount of it and seemed to like it a lot. The next day he was very lethargic and had a weird seizure, his legs seeming paralyzed. There's another thread about this gecko when it was happening... you can search for it if you like.

He was kept on paper towel in a tank by himself. Temps were around 71-75 degrees, on the lower end of that.

[ColleenM]

It sounds more like he was born with a defect. I've fed hatchlings CGD and tons of breeders do as well i really doubt impaction.

[honuman]

It sounds more like he was born with a defect. I've fed hatchlings CGD and tons of breeders do as well i really doubt impaction.

Agreed. A defect is likely the cause of death.  If it was impaction perhaps it had eaten some of the substrate in the hatching tub while emerging from the egg.

[Herpisphere]

Don't deny that it could be a birth defect. But I think there's a big chance that it wasn't considering the symptons.

Also, I watched it hatch and the egg was incubated on paper towel, so it didn't eat any of that.

[honuman]

Don't deny that it could be a birth defect. But I think there's a big chance that it wasn't considering the symptons.

Also, I watched it hatch and the egg was incubated on paper towel, so it didn't eat any of that.

Now this is a first.  How did you incubate an egg on a paper towel and maintain the humidity?

[Herpisphere]

I just sprayed it every day as I did with the moss I'd used with some of the others and, keeping it in a tupaware container, it retained the humidity. I hatched a couple of my cresteds this way. It actually worked much better than the moss for me.

[warnersister_2000]

sorry, but i gotta call BS, especially since you have never taken this animal to a vet.

you posted about your baby gecko dying 2 1/2 weeks ago.  here are some quotes from you:

"The other in its clutch did not hatch and he WAS born with slight kinks in his tail."

1/7/08:
"Ok, so up until about a week ago I fed my geckos on crickets and baby food with supplement added to it. This worked fine for me and I don't believe there was anything wrong with it because I never had any problems."

again, i'm sorry to be blunt, but your gecko was probably doomed before it was ever created.  now you HAVE seen the problems with your previous diet, and i highly suggest you do NOT stop feeding CGD to your hatchlings.

[marigold]

would just like to add that, if you are worried about impaction, to stop feeding cgd, and go with, like, crickets... that would provide a greater risk of impaction than cgd.  so that doesn't sound logical.  if you went with, like, baby food, you'd really be asking for trouble.  some babies are born unhealthy.  it's very sad if they die...  but you are talking to some very experienced people here who know better.

[krazymuttzpuck]

i cannot believe you are going sit there and say the CGD caused your geckos death ( by the way i am sorry for your loss). You have no proof, and you are basing it one and only one incident. I can understand you being upset for loosing a pet, but come on..if the food did in fact cause something like that ..i am sure you would not have been the first. You would be hearing about this from other breeders and other people in general. I personally have never heard CGD causing any sort of problems in any age gecko. Please before you come out and blame a death on something..have proof and  a professional
(vet) Opinion. If you started this post saying something like..hey what could have caused my gecko to pass..you would get more support ...but coming out right off the bat and blaming it on the food is just absurd!

[BrianLorys]

i cannot believe you are going sit there and say the CGD caused your geckos death ( by the way i am sorry for your loss). You have no proof, and you are basing it one and only one incident. I can understand you being upset for loosing a pet, but come on..if the food did in fact cause something like that ..i am sure you would not have been the first. You would be hearing about this from other breeders and other people in general. I personally have never heard CGD causing any sort of problems in any age gecko. Please before you come out and blame a death on something..have proof and  a professional
(vet) Opinion. If you started this post saying something like..hey what could have caused my gecko to pass..you would get more support ...but coming out right off the bat and blaming it on the food is just absurd!

Power to the people! 

[Herpisphere]

I didn't say it definently was CGD. I suspect it was.

If you'd been there and seen it you probably would too, but I'm not going to waste my time going on about it.

I put this here as a warning because I felt obligated to. I just thought I should tell people to be careful about it. Apparently no one cares that much to be a little more concerned with what they feed their geckos... so just forget it.

I'm sorry I ever brought it up and cared about other peoples pets.

I will NOT be feeding CGD ever again to my newborn hatchlings. I'll be going back to what I'd been using before which worked perfectly fine and I never had any problems whatsoever with - small dusted crickets, babyfood with vitamin supplements, and a little bit of Phelsumax.

[BrianLorys]

Nobody really thinks it could be CGD because people have been using it for years, and i have ever heard of one reported death from it. IMO going back to your old forumla will just increase your mortality rate.

[krazymuttzpuck]

How are you going to say that you feel obligated to say what you said. You feel obligated to give information based on just what one person thinks? Obligated to come on and blame food for a loss of your gecko the same food that almost everyone uses on this forum with no one else coming forward and having problems......for one, before you start placing blame why don't you think of all factors.....it was a newborn....to be blunt..in captivity..or in wild....newborn of any animal don't always make it most of the time factors way beyond our control. Ever think that maybe it was  a defect.. maybe internally he did not develop properly... or maybe he could not digest properly....sometimes things just DO NOT MAKE IT!
No matter if you or me or anyone does everything perfect everything textbook on how get these guys hatch..ultimately it is not up to us if they live....THAT'S LIFE!

and for you to say that you cared about others people's pets, well it sure did not sound like it from what you posted.. it sounded like you were blaming the most healthy food we have for our geckos as the culprit in the death of yours. Just watch how you post..it is all in the way you say things.

If in fact you had proof..or some logic..than you could state that it was a warning for others....but you don't. That is the equivalent of someone havening a stroke while playing checkers because they have health problems....and putting a warning on checker games that says " warning this game may cause you to have a stroke and die" Come on get real!

[Herpisphere]

This is just ridiculous...

Is anyone even reading what I am saying?!

I said that that is what it had eaten and it died, having the signs of being impacted. Therefore, there's a chance it was the CGD. That's ALL!!! Yes, like I've said, it could be a number of other things but it had the signs of being impacted and all it had eaten was the CGD. You can take what you want from it. That's all I was saying!

[warnersister_2000]

reverting to their old diet in this situation is irresponsible and ignorant.  everyone here is trying to get you to see this because we also care about your geckos and want them to be healthy so you never have to go through this again.  please take our advice, or at least talk to a knowledgeable vet!

Now this is a first.  How did you incubate an egg on a paper towel and maintain the humidity?

not only that, but how do you keep them from rolling?

That is the equivalent of someone havening a stroke while playing checkers because they have health problems....and putting a warning on checker games that says " warning this game may cause you to have a stroke and die" Come on get real!

 

[BrianLorys]

Amber, has anybody ever told you that you may have a natural talent for arguing?

[Herpisphere]

From what I've read about impaction, that's what is sounds like, especially the back legs becoming paralyzed as they did. Once again, I DON'T know for sure. I never SAID I DID!!!

I already responded about the humidty part. But since when do eggs roll unless you make them?

I'm not feeding CGD to any of my geckos until they're at least a month old. I don't see how this is in anyway irresponsable. Considering my concern, I can only see it as the extreme opposite.

[BrianLorys]

I dont find it irresponsible, just kind of "idiotic" for lack of a better term. Could be im just not thinking much, because i am certainly not saying your an idiot. Just that what your doing may not be the best choice.

The reason i say "idiotic" is because many many people have raised more geckos than you can imagine, particularly Repashy, on pure CGD, from hatching, to now, with no problems at all. I think the problem lies within your old diet. There is no way to know for sure if your adding the right amounts of vitamins, calcium, or the rest of the nutrients your gecko needs. CGD is specifically manufactured for crested geckos, and it has everything essential in it. Going back to your old diet may increase the mortality rate and lead to problems with your adults. You may have noticed how hard it is to get a gecko from baby food to CGD.

[marc.b.allard]

""What had it eaten? Crested Gecko Diet.

I want this to be a warning to others. Wait until your gecko is a few months old to feed it CGD. Why risk death?""

dude, you completely blamed cgd for the death of your gecko, thats pretty plain. Blaming cgd wont make you feel better about your loss.

Listen, there are a lot of new people on this forum all the time checking these posts out, telling people not to use cgd is irresponsible.... and more harmful info, then good info.

A better way to start your thread would have been "is it possible that cgd can cause impaction at any age?" then learnt from the experts, instead of telling the experts that the wool was pulled over their eyes and that cgd was risky to feed to any gecko under a month old.

anyway, its no big deal. id be upset if i lost my gecko to.

[Herpisphere]

Thanks.

Yeah, I understand that a lot of geckos have been fed on CGD. I've been starting wonder if it's possible that the CGD I bought wasn't right. I bought it from a breeder at a show and it wasn't in the actual container. They "put" them into bigger containers so you could get more. But... it does have a lot of grainish pieces in it and this is another reason why I don't doubt that it could cause impaction. It's hardly different in size from sand (some of the particles) and it doesn't ever completely dissolve no matter how you mix it. Is everybodys CGD like this or did someone rip me off?

As for switching back to the old diet, I've been using it for two years since I got the geckos, but the mom of this baby had switched over to CGD before she'd laid this one.

And... again... I didn't say that it was definently the CGD (this is the last time I'm going to repeat this. If anybody else says this I'll  just ignore them...). I said that that's what it had eaten.

[ColleenM]

The back legs becoming paralyzed is just a sign its dying...i have had geckos die on me before, soem from stress of shipping and others defenitly from defects or lack of calcium from previous owners....the back legs always stopped working as their systems we're failing. Because the gecko was so young and the other was born with kinked tail it is possible the female jsut wasnt producing the eggs right. I had one female produce a baby with its intestines formed on the outside of its body and a deformed jaw, was not yet fully formed, female was extremely healthy, never fed anything but cgd and dusted crickets. Things happen. But i highly doubt the cgd caused it. and those granuals or w/e in the food is how it is...but it wont cause impaction, its nothing like sand. They can digest it, they cant sand.

[warnersister_2000]

Amber, has anybody ever told you that you may have a natural talent for arguing?

i don't mean to be argumentative, honest!  i'm around lawyers all day, i can't help it 

from http://www.anapsid.org/signs.html:

"Even very small things that are wrong or just slightly off can, over time, lead to big health problems. Stress onset can be sudden and acute . . . or it can be slow and insidious . . . Sudden onsets bring about immediate and dramatic changes in color and behavior that even the only moderately observant owner can pick up on. Slow, constant stress, however, may result in slow, gradual changes in behavior and color. Behaviors such as . . . reduced appetite, irregular defecation, attitude, regression/increase in tameness, and more can all indicate signs of stress and illness."

But... it does have a lot of grainish pieces in it and this is another reason why I don't doubt that it could cause impaction. It's hardly different in size from sand (some of the particles) and it doesn't ever completely dissolve no matter how you mix it. Is everybodys CGD like this or did someone rip me off?

As for switching back to the old diet, I've been using it for two years since I got the geckos, but the mom of this baby had switched over to CGD before she'd laid this one.

the old formula CGD is a bit more grainy than the improved formula.  it is possible the vendor was trying to sell off the old stuff.  personally, i wouldn't trust anything that was originally in a sealed container that had been opened.  not only does it shorten the shelf life, you don't know what could have gotten into it.

as for diet of the parents, just as health problems from a baby food diet may take several months to appear, they aren't going to go away overnight.  the damage was already done, but i would definitely give her a longer cooling period and plenty of extra calcium (leave a dish of powder in the cage at all times and keep it dry).

Because the gecko was so young and the other was born with kinked tail it is possible the female jsut wasnt producing the eggs right.

quotes from herpisphere:
"He is definently somewhat of a runt."  "[The gecko that died] is the one with the kinked tail. The other one just didn't hatch and didn't have a developed baby inside."

But since when do eggs roll unless you make them?

if the eggs are on paper towels, and there is any sort of vibration in the house, e.g., loud music, large vehicle/aircraft passing by, vacuum cleaner, etc., what is keeping them from turning?  i would be interested in seeing your exact setup.  also, what is your hatch rate using this method?

[ColleenM]

Ahh thanks amber, guess i missed that.

[honuman]

if the eggs are on paper towels, and there is any sort of vibration in the house, e.g., loud music, large vehicle/aircraft passing by, vacuum cleaner, etc., what is keeping them from turning?  i would be interested in seeing your exact setup.  also, what is your hatch rate using this method

I have to agree here.  Anything can set them to rolling even just picking up the container.  Not to mention movement of the babies in side the eggs as well (of course if they have managed to make it that far the movement would not likely upset things)

This is why I asked you about how you are hatching them on papertowels.  If you are then it is shear luck that you are hatching any at all. Not to mention the fact that wet paper towel with an egg on it will get funky pretty fast.